In-Game Tag Discussion

[Koumori]

[quote="V3N0M";p="186902"]This post was not Saxons in the first place, it was Strails.
This post is a discussion between us all so Strail might be able to sort this mess out.

As you say , you can kill people all day merrily unencumbered all because you have some silly tag before your name, so why you even joining in this post if you have nothing creative

?[/quote]

I was talking about the post Saxon made prior to this one, but I have to admit, you've got me there- the point I was trying to get at is that as far as I'm concerned there is no 'mess' - overall, I find that if you make use of what's there, you can do pretty much whatever you want.
To bring all my ramblings to a single, final point- I don't think there's any room for improvement.

I think I'll step outside for some air now...


Edit:

Im not gonna start this banter with you in this post as it will only end up locked and things will never be sorted out
If you wonna start things like that with me, try getting some b**** and jump in teamspeak.
Till then.....

/mute Kumori

Why bother editing all that into your post after I've already replied saying that our discussion is over? Wanted to make it look as though you ended it on your own terms, huh?
This is just a difference of opinion- stop trying to turn it into a fight, it just causes unneeded fuss.

[Zebulon]

Ok - lets try and stay on topic here.   The more tags you introduce, the more confusing it becomes.  The problem is that certain people dont adhere to the RP designated by the tags that are alreadly in existence.  So introducing more is frankly pointless particularly if no one is going to stick to the RP's. (and yes its a shooter server...blah blah)
So, a solution is required, right?  Try this for size.

1.  Any freelancer is free to remain without a tag.  This means that this player has no RP - they are shooters.  Non tagged players may shoot at other non tagged players in requests for PvP or purely as an ambush/combat/melee.  They are NOT permitted to fire upon any tagged players without first requesting PvP.  This way there is no need to wonder about what these players are likely to do.  Basicaly as non  tagged players you can shoot it out amongst yourselves in Sparta, EFZ or where ever.  No moans, no crys of "foul" or "why did you shoot me?".  Conversely TAGGED players are not permitted to engage or shoot at non tagged players and can only respond to requests FROM non tagged players for PvP.  Non Tagged players character names need to be in plain text with no special characters to make them easy to read - so there is no confusion as to their purpose.

2. TAGS: There will be a strict enforcement of any Tagged player.  You have agreed to partake in a specific role. This is non negotiable.  You have FIVE character slots per login id.  This should not be a difficult concept to follow.
By tagged players I am also refering to those that wear CLAN tags.

3. There will be FOUR tags:  R: Rogue  X: Pirate  H: Hunter T: Trader

Rogue:  This is a LONE unlawful player. They DO NOT group and they DO NOT clan  - Rogues that are seen to be grouping in chat or combining forces with X or any other clans will be penalised either by fine or by a "kick" - persistent offenders will be banned. Rogues kill EVERYTHING - they can be specific but once they are done they are obliged to turn on whoever is present.  Sitting around "chatting" to others will be seen as a contravention of Rogue RP.  EFZ and NY will be the only places that this does not apply.  Want to "chat and date" - do it in NY. EFZ is an event / training ground so RP is not necessary here.

Pirate:  This is an unlawfull character.  They are the only players that can request TAX currently capped at 200k. Its not the amount - its the principal.  Pirates can act as individuals or as members of a clan - Clan tag must clearly carry the X tag.  They are not permitted to group with Rogues. They can group with other Pirate clans carrying the X - they are not permitted to group with NOMAD based RPs or with ANY Lawful RPs such as Hunters Navy Army Police Order etc etc. Their targets are Traders, Hunters, Rogues and any Lawful Affiliated Clan. They can remain neutral to Nomad clans but cannot support their attacks or request help from Rogues or Nomad RPs.

Hunter: These are Lawful characters. Their targets are Rogues THEN Pirates and any Nomad RPs - Rogues are their Primary targets.  Pirates are a secondary target unless fired upon by the Pirates.  In the presence of Rogues and Pirates - Rogues are to be eradicated first.  If outnumbered pirates choose to hang around then be prepared to take the consequences.  Rogues seen supporting pirates or vice versa in a Hunter / Rogue conflict will be appropriately warned. They are not permitted to group with Unlawful characters such as Pirates, Rogues or Nomad RPs

Trader: Says what it does on the packet. Trader characters with this tag are NOT permitted to by flying in Fighters. You are traders - fly cargo / transporters.  When confronted by Pirates and you are unable to flee you are REQUIRED to pay tax - upon payment of tax you will be permitted to go on your way.  Failure to pay tax will ensure your destruction and loss of cargo.  If you are able to flee then you are permitted to attempt to do so with the use of Regeneration - HOWEVER - you must NOT return fire if you are running and regenerating.  Returning fire is acceptance of PvP rules.  Failure to pay tax when unable to escape will be considered a breach of Trader RP.
Traders can be loners or they can be members of a clan.  Traders can call upon the assistance of Hunters and any Lawful Clan.  Traders that are members of a Pirate clan MUST carry both tags - this clearly indicates to the authorities that this is a member of an unlawful organisation (which should be obivious to those that know the clan RP) It will help to indicate to new players the role that this character has.  The same applies to members of Hunter clans - both tags are to be worn.  EG:   [RAF]-Boxcutter[T][H]  is a member of the RAF and is a trader character as well as being part of a Hunter Clan.    [BBD]-Boxcutter[T][X] indicates that this is a trader which is part of the BBD Pirate clan.   It is also permissable to have an independant Trader character - even if you are part of a Pirate clan but are not wearing your pirate tags you are STILL subject to the above rule if another pirate clan asks you for tax.
Running and F1'ing  out of range before docking is also considered poor sportsmanship - if you succesfully escape and can dock - then change characters should you choose to.  F1 whilst still in space with others searching for you after a pursuit is considered unsporting - "let the dog see the rabbit".  Your a trader - its an occupational hazzard.

4. Clans and Associations:  Clans are required to have a CLEAR RP - not some wishywashy twaddle that makes their position as clear as mud. There will be only TWO  categories:  

LAWFUL: Navy, Army, Police, Order, Hunters.  They are not permitted to engage in piracy, drug smuggling whilst in tagged characters - so any LAWFUL clan member trader or otherwise seen carrying contraband is in breach of the LAWFUL RP and will be penalised appropriately - if youve got a Trader that does not have tags - then use that as your smuggler - many already do this.  They are REQUIRED to be proactive.  If seen sitting in a system and NOT in pursuit of Rogues, Pirates and Nomads they will be penalised appropriately.

UNLAWFUL: Rogues, Pirates, Nomads and any "evil" clans.  They are required to conduct themselves in an appropriate manner - ie not to be seen grouping with lawful clans and tags.  EVIL clans: MUST have a clearly defined RP statment showing their target priorities and they have NO ALLIES - Nomad reps will attack EVERYTHING - Rogues, Pirates, Hunters, Traders, and any other clans Lawful or Unlawful.  This also applies to clans like Eclipse DKH and -=REAVERS=- Those not wishing to carry out this RP and continue as an unlawful clan are required to wear the X tag and to behave as pirates.  

That is pretty much it.  Its not rocket science.  If you dont want to RP dont wear a tag and DONT engage anyone wearing a tag without prior consent - they might be busy on another errand or involved in a conflict / RP scenario.  If you are engaged in RP follow the very simple instructions above.  I DONT want this place to go down the line of the DISCOVERY server.  The only restriction on ship type applies to the [T] tag - it MUST be a cargo / trader of some sort - NO FIGHTERS.  This still leaves a WIDE scope for styles of combat and play - it probably wont eradicate the moans but thats human nature.  All the other server rules still apply and it changes one VERY important aspect of this server.  OVERKILL:  When you are in an RP character expect to be hunted and shot at if you dont like it then dont wear the tag - go to an untagged character if you need a respite.  Gate sitting and Dock sitting will still be considered unfair and not in the spirit of the game - give them a chance to get clear first.  Use your brain - if you are tagged and outnumbered when trying to exit from NY into Alexandria or any other system DONT keep going back and then quoting the UNWRITTEN guideline of five kills in a row - thats just plain STOOPID.  If you want to go that way get your mates in to clear the gates - if not FIND ANOTHER ROUTE.

Over agressive targeting of a clans traders or tagged traders will be frowned upon and will be treated as harassment.  In order to avoid such complaints do not hound or gate sit traders if you have already succesfully nailed them. If they have escorts then Welcome to Hell - SPACE is a dangerous place. USE YOUR COMMON SENSE. You can always respawn.  To our more experienced player PLEASE be patient with those that you ambush.  They may have come from places that are not so "free" with the RP as we are here.  Again: APPLY COMMON SENSE and SPORTSMANSHIP in these circumstances.  

Untagged players in "shoot em up" mode can ask for MERCY.  When you have had enough let the other players know.  Otherwise Put Up or Shut Up.

Thats how I would change things here.  I am faced constantly with moans about over agressive play when some choose to use the RP as a poor excuse or even ditch the RP and say "its a shooter server" when it suiits too.  This needs CLEAR and CONCISE instructions and guidlines as to what is and is not acceptable RP.  Hence the need for two categories.  If you dont want to RP dont wear tags - this leaves you free to go create your own special mayhem with your untagged buddies.  Want to RP? Then stick to the very simple instructions.  There is no room for persistent whingers and legalistic schiesters who will quote bend and twist the rules to suit.  ADMINS and VOIDS will need to be switched on and proactive in ensuring that RP instructions are followed.  My response to moaners is this: Dont want to RP? Dont wear a Tag. Its that simple.

Thats my twopence worth.  And PLEASE read the above before you comment - I DONT want this to become a Rule and Regulation swampish nightmare than Discovery has become.  
*(phew)*
:-w

[Maverick]

Although I have posted a few threads about keeping the [R] tag or not, I feel we should not change anything. I think the problem lies with the mentality of some players, and not with the tags. I think Liman summed it up quite nicely. I agree with his post.

The only thing I am not entirely sure about, is the freelancer char. If we were to remove the random killing rights of the freelancer, we would essentially be making this server a RP based server instead of a shooter server, since a freelancer could only be partaking in a fight if he were to ask for an organized pvp. Therefore I feel we should keep everything as it is, including the current freelancer format.
Having to put a RP tag on your char also limits your possibilities. Having a freelancer char creates possibilities. In my =|MAVERICK|= char I could choose to shoot other players without warning, since the main character is still a shooter one. During such a time one could describe my behavior as Rogue-like. But on another day or moment I could choose to join a certain side in a battle, or participate in organized pvp. Or decide to do a RP raid on a clan base. All of these things would not be possible if I were to make a compulsory Rogue char.
So this is the reason for me to say we keep everything as it is, including the freelancer chars and the [R] tag.

~Peace~

[Maverick]

Seems that Zeb has beat me to it. After reading his post, I have to say I feel it is a very good variation of the current system. Especially the part about keeping tagged and non-tagged players' behavior separate. As a matter of fact I could quote his whole post here, but suffices to say I just agree with it all.

That is about my view.

[Maverick]

I agree with Shonen. I think it wouldn't hurt if the [VOID]s and [ADMIN]s would be a little more strict, especially when it comes to players living up to their tags. Keep everyone on a tight leash and make sure there are clear boundaries for everyone to see. This would help avoiding moanings and annoying discussions on the forum, as everybody would know where the line is drawn.

Sorry for the slight off-topic.

[[BLK_LGN][X]Zeus]

@ Zeb> Just want to clarify, when you talk about tags, do you include clan tags in that?

[Vansen]

Ive been on this server for a few months now and in my eyes the tags here seem to work OK. The only thing that seems a tad shady to me is the freelancer / Rogue roles. There doesnt seem to be much of a difference between the both. Ive read the comments already posted, some very good ones at that, but what ive seen so far is that Freelancers can pretty much do what they want and group with who they want to, be it RP tagged or not...Rogues can do exactly the same!

On my old server, Rogues were the absolute scum of the earth and hunted with a passion. If you was brave enough and skillful enough then you took the Rogue tag and caused havoc in whatever system you was in and you was in big trouble if you grouped with anyone. Here ive seen Rogues sitting at planets, chatting away to their friends a few hundred metres away and even worse, swapping chars to a Rogue just to kill a fat trader in Alpha or to exact revenge for a friend.

Anyone can create a [R]tag here and i think this is wrong.

I think that the Rogue role should be by Admin / Void invite only with perhaps a full green rep or some other bonus? only the very best fighters and roleplayers get the honor of playing a Rogue and everyone knows that they are there for one thing...to kill.

Im sure players that have a Rogue will tell me im stupid and a newbie but this is just my opinion, Rogues are great here, i just wish it was a tad harder to get one.

[Maverick]

[quote="Vansen";p="186925"] and group with who they want to, be it RP tagged or not...Rogues can do exactly the same![/quote]
Please allow me to correct you there sis. It is a very clear rule that no Rogue should not ever group up with another player, no matter the tag.

[quote="Vansen";p="186925"]Im sure players that have a Rogue will tell me im stupid and a newbie but this is just my opinion.[/quote]
Not at all m8. I got a Rogue char, and I think you posted a nice idea. I think it would make the role of Rogue a more desirable one, and also a bit more rare. Rogues seem to pop up from every corner lately. And in general perform pretty bad when it comes to RP.

[Strail]

Just to add my bit to this.

Many moons ago, we didnt have the role play tags like merc/hunter/rogue and stuff. We actually didnt have anything apart from clan tags and Pirate tags. I liked it this way because it enabled people to easily understand what was happening and if people used other tags, it was ok, just not "official". So if the traders wanted to put a [T] tag on, that was ok and they got on with it, there was no "negative" reaction, like, "WTF is that tag, its not recognised on this server", it was just..ok.

So, over time the server players built a load of tagged characters and I guarantee, I wasnt the only one asking "whats that tag mean", whats that about etc etc. I thought it was ok and kinda cool really. So although we had a ton of tagged up characters and clan names it seemed, to me to be ok - those who wanter RP tagged themselves up, those who didnt, didnt.

Then there was another discussion on tags, like 1 or 2 years ago, and I RELUCTANTLY agreed to the restructure of the tags, i.e. what we have today. I never liked it and I dont agree with it, however, at the time it was the best compromise betwen the admins.

You see, for me, deep down, I dont believe everybody should be pidgeon-holed or shoe horned into a tag if they play a lot. I believe that too many tags cause an adverse affect for all players - peoples interpretation of the role, people who dont understand tags, people who just dont want a tag and obviously this makes the admin of the server very difficult for everyone. Even the admin staff have differing views on tag rolls.

To sum it all up, I'm a big believer in keeping everything very simple, whilst allowing those who want to develop characters/tags the scope to do that and develop their own RP if they want.

So for a suggestion, I put forward this:
Clan tagged characters only need a clan tag, nothing more no [X] etc, unless they want it in their tag
[X] tag is kept and any players wanting to act as pirates then its ok - but players who act like pirates by demanding money must be tagged
Everything else is upto the players, if they want to tag as a merc, then fine or a [H] etc etc. its ok by me..They can develop their own RP as they see fit, without others dictating to them.

Maybe this is to simplified, but I think it causes less confusion and enables players to develop their own RP and tags, without others dictating what is right RP and what is not.