Freelancer - The Void

*sigh*.... Dear god. As said in Vlad's post - your pessimism is fanatic - their really is no right choice, it just seems like it. But, anyway, I would vote for Obama if I could. Only thing that's troublesome about that is the real threat of Assasination or even riots, if he loses. The unfortunate amount of white supremacist groups in the America and the world is scary enough, nevermind the crazy one-man assasin. Many, many bad possibilities either way... depressing, really.

Although, the fact that I'm not from America, or at the voting age anyway probably discounts me from this poll anyway, but, thought I'd put something in.

Theres a good way to deal with all the white supremacists... Just kill them all, they are all scum. If someone could tell me one reason why they should exist I would stand very corrected. You know I'm a pretty friendly guy, and I would never say that I would hate something that I actually did to the very depths of my being. I HATE anybody who is "white supremacist" like or anyone who supports their values.

Theres my little off-topic rant... Carry on!

@Vladvulgar -there might not be a threat to you where you live but to some of us it is a definate and plausable threat. Sorry to put some idea that there is a threat in your cosy little world - hope it never visits you.  Your ability to buy into such rubbish as 9/11 being an inside job just proves how politicaly innocent you are. You probably believe that there are aliens at Roswell and Area 51 and that global freemasonry and the Illuminati are running things....! Here's another for you.  Yasser Arafat was murdered by his own people because he was about to come to an agreement with the Israelis - That whole Compound Attack by the Isreali Army?  The Israeli's were set up by the terrorists to cover the fact that Arafat had been murdered.  Ridiculous isnt it?  Just as ridiculous as 9/11 being an "inside job"...!

Palestine..? Securing land for their people? Dont make me laugh!  The PLO were the ONLY ones with this agenda! The rest were out to destroy and not negotiate..! They were given the chance to run their own territory. It wasnt enough for them and they couldnt even agree with each other and started killing and bombing one another..!  They (Hamas. Hesbollah. etc) have SPECIFICALY stated that they will ERADICATE Israel and its WESTERN supporters. You cannot have an inclusive system because in BOTH camps there is far to much intolerance.  Far  to ofen these organisations have murdered their own who have dared to try and negotiate with Isreal or the West. Osama bin Laden has CLEARLY stated that he will fight to destroy America and its allies REGARDLESS of who is in power - so for someone to say they are going to "talk" to these people makes a mockery of the whole "peace" process. Lets set the record straight here just so there is no misunderstanding.  The Illegal Settlement of "occupied" land by Israeli settlers is WRONG and the Israeli government is right in removing these people from these "outposts". All it will take is for Hamas and Hesbollah to renounce and stop their suicide bombings and attacks for the Isrealis to come to the negotiating table. Not as simple as it sounds. They tried before to talk peace but the attacks were still occuring which clearly shows that there is precious little control of the fanatics by their "political" masters and until that changes it will be extremely difficult to resolve a very ancient problem.

You cant negotiate with people that are hell bent on destroying you!  The landscape changed after 9/11 because it stopped being about securing your own back yard and became about ERADICATING the other guy. If it was just about securing a better deal for your own people then it would be a VERY different situation all together.  So you think its ok to have the Taliban run Afghanistan and spread their doctrine of religious hatred and murder throughout the Muslim world?  You find the excecution of women for expressing their independance and the mutilation of people for the crime of theft to be acceptable? You think its perfectly ok for people who live in one country to go to another, learn how to kill civilians and then return to their country of citizenship and start indiscriminantly murdering people?  You start negotiating with such people and you leave yourself wide open to attack.  They dont care if you are just "Joe Bloggs" sitting at home - you dont believe what they do and you refuse to accept it so they are going to destroy you, your family and your way of life because of that? You find that ok do you? Quite happy to have Sharia law in your country? Well there are some extremists in mine that would happily have this and then murder everyone who refused to become a follower of Islam.  If I reject the Qu'ran then my life is forfiet. That is a threat to my way of life and you are going to tell me that we can negotiate with some who fight from such an impossible position? I understand that not all Muslims feel this way. Dont misunderstand me, I am equally against any form of Christian Extremism that advocates a similar approach to "non believers".  I have worked in Kosovo and seen at first hand some of the dreadful mistrust and hatred from BOTH sides in the conflict.  Further than that I am not prepared to say publicly, but I know about this stuff. It is said that "religion has caused more wars than anything else in history".  Let me add to that as a way of clarification:  "Politics, disguised as religion, has caused more wars than anything else in history..."

Remember this from Edmund Burke: "For Evil to succeed all it requires is for good men to do nothing."

You will be telling me next that the attack on Glasgow Airport by an Al Quaida cell was an "inside" job - and if they are not a threat to my way of life - which by the way involves Law Abiding citizens of all religions and ethnic origins - then was this attack just a careless accident with a match?  You accuse me of living my life in the UK and the implication is that I am "safe" there....tell that to the victims of the 7/7 bomb attacks in London.

@ Maverick - So Im just supposed to ignore it?  All I wanted was for Burn to explain himself and he has done so. Thanks. Im not a "neutralist" when these topics come up. I have been asked NOT to delete things just cos I disagree with them or even find them inappropriate.

@ Burn. To answer your question:  No I am not Jewish. I am a Christian and from a Roman Catholic background. Also,  I should have clarified my statement and written it better - it was not a reference to where you live and I didnt make that clear and for that I apologise profoundly.  Your apology for the accusation of racism is accepted - consider this matter closed.

@mightybean:: So you would employ the self same tactics against White Supremacists as they advocate against People of Colour? Does that not make you just as bad as they are? These people dont need eradicating - they need educating.  There are many who have turned from such paths and whilst promoting their change of heart they are faced with the consequences of their past behavior and threats from those who see them as betraying the "white race" - Watch the movie "American History X".  Its such a sack of BS which is as bad as ANY other form of extremist behaviour regardless of the excuse.

I do make clear distinctions on the basis of religion and politics.  I do have prejudices - well all do and you are kidding yourself if you say you dont - But I wont take part in Discrimination and  I would never condone or aprove of ANY persecution on the grounds of religion or politics and defiantely NOT because of someones ethnic background. You cant claim to be protecting democracy and then go about taking it apart. Democracy gives me the right to disagree with you and gives you the right to disagree with me without being in fear of your life.  Thats why the Civil Rights movement in the US was, and is such an important part of the polictical development and growth in the US - never before has there ever been a man such as Obama.  I dont agree with him on many things and I "poke" at his political leanings and his background - I put the picture up there to counteract much of the BS that has been posted here in the past regarding George W. -  I didnt see many folk stepping up to say "stop picking on the white middle class Christian"  - did you? I dont agree with everything that GW did or believes, but I sure as heck dont entirely  agree with the flip side of the coin either!  Just making a point. At the moment I dont get to be part of this process but I am learing much as I may have to take an active part in it one day!  If Barak Obama  gets to be President of the US I will be watching very closely.

You cant make people second class citizens because of these things. Its wrong. Doesnt mean I have to get all "huggy" about what they believe and become a RELATIVIST (whats true for you may not be true for me but thats ok...) about it.

To others - please see my statement on the Perspective thread.  I make no apology for having a dig at a man who's position in the Whitehouse will be frankly just as worrying as the last one.  In all I dont trust polititcians, if their not kissing babies they are stealing their candy - but if your not part of the process then you dont get to complain about it - and that goes for anyone in a country that allows you to vote....!  Dont like it? VOTE.  Didnt Vote? STFU.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting

I would like to officially appologise to you Zebulon for using harsh words against you in a very unmannered way (i don't know why i started it in the first place) i guess we all have our bad days but letting it out on a forum won't solve anything.
My appologise also goes out to Maverick (for baiting him and being unmannerd to him) to Watchwolf,Gannon (poor Gannon just announced his return and i slammed him right away sorry m8  :) "the voices in my head" made me do it)
to mightybean,Zeus and probably many more who have read my stupid comments.
Sorry guys.
Back on topic: Obama.

i agree with vladwulgar about that issue , the ones whom gonna get affected by what the world Call (terrorism) are the ones who live in middle east , specially the countries on border with israelian occupied provinces.
i dont think Obama , or any other american president can negotiate with Hezb'o'allah or Hamas cause these are militia Organizations , not safe , not alligned to their words and agreement. -

indeed , 911 was an inside / outside job - american / israelian cooperation using mid-eastern arab elements.

PS: im american  =P~

well personally i couldnt give a care in the world for who leads the USA, although my choice would have to be Obama.

[quote="Ghosty";p="189373"]well personally i couldnt give a care in the world for who leads the USA, although my choice would have to be Obama.[/quote]
from your previous words , Can ii conclude that you are not american sir ?

[quote="Burn_Baby_Burn";p="189368"]My appologise also goes out to Maverick (for baiting him and being unmannerd to him)[/quote]
Thanks for the apology. You must know that I am not a person who tends to make a hobby about how people look at him, so I didn't care what you thought of me. If you like me, that's great, if you don't, well that's your problem. I am who I am and that's it. In all honesty I have to say that I am not entirely sure I can trust you on your apology. You seem to have created an image of unpredictability. I guess time will tell if you were just.

Nevertheless thanks for your apology. As far as I'm concerned, we're good to go.

Sorry for the off-topic.

im from UK (Northern Ireland). its all over the news over here but personally im not in my political stage of life ( only 15).

@ Zebulon

I guess you could say that I'm discriminant against White-Supremacists then. I wouldn't spend tax-payers money on educating that type of people. But yeah, I really hate them! Haha you could probably tell by now  :P I appreciate your views though! Interesting approach.

First of all
I would myself vote for Obama, he has the most statements I agree with:
There is his economic view which I am not going into details about right now (to much for me to write)
There is the abortion view which I am neither going into details about (info on both last subjects can be found on the original post with the links to the two parties homepages)

Then there is the war in Iraq and in Afghanistan.
I was, and I still am, against the occupation of Iraq, but I could indeed see the importance in taking down Saddam Hussein's regime.
If I am remembering right there was a statement made by an American soldier about a year ago which I support: "America won the war, but lost the peace"
I am not going to argue if this is right or wrong with anyone here, but that is in my eyes correct. Still I understand why other people can and will think otherwise and you are correct with your opinions right as well.

Obama say he will get the American soldiers home from Iraq within the next 18 months. I don't think that is nearly enough time to rebuild Iraq.
McCain say that for him america can stay in Iraq for another 100 years. I don't agree with him either, but he at least he sees the necessity for America to stay in Iraq for a longer time.  If Obama are to win I hope he reconsiders Americas part in this war and decides it's necessary to stay longer to help rebuild the country.

Off-topic, but not completely not off-topic:
I don't know how to do this so I am asking if someone knows this: If it's possible how can you add another option to the vote?
I am giving you a third choice: Ralph Nader The independent candidate.

Vote Hatchet you know it make sense Yes I am jewish and I can prove it.

Well wont be long now and we will see the results, looks to me like Obama has clinched it.
Obama first black US president,, naaa we had Morgan Freeman in Deep Impact, seriously though, if I can be for a few minutes today.
Black, old, muslim , arab, green with polkadots from planet ZOZ doesnt matter to me. Remember I've a new perspective on life. It's Palin that worries the hell out of me, shes a nut job. She gets into the big chair the nukes will be flying.

i havnt persoanlly looked into it much.
But all i know it will effect Australia due to our links with the U.S.
Obama from the little i have read is the one which best seems to suit my interests

[quote="Zebulon";p="189365"]@Vladvulgar -there might not be a threat to you where you live but to some of us it is a definate and plausable threat. Sorry to put some idea that there is a threat in your cosy little world - hope it never visits you.  Your ability to buy into such rubbish as 9/11 being an inside job just proves how politicaly innocent you are. You probably believe that there are aliens at Roswell and Area 51 and that global freemasonry and the Illuminati are running things....! Here's another for you.  Yasser Arafat was murdered by his own people because he was about to come to an agreement with the Israelis - That whole Compound Attack by the Isreali Army?  The Israeli's were set up by the terrorists to cover the fact that Arafat had been murdered.  Ridiculous isnt it?  Just as ridiculous as 9/11 being an "inside job"...!


Palestine..? Securing land for their people? Dont make me laugh!  The PLO were the ONLY ones with this agenda! The rest were out to destroy and not negotiate..! They were given the chance to run their own territory. It wasnt enough for them and they couldnt even agree with each other and started killing and bombing one another..!  They (Hamas. Hesbollah. etc) have SPECIFICALY stated that they will ERADICATE Israel and its WESTERN supporters. You cannot have an inclusive system because in BOTH camps there is far to much intolerance.  Far  to ofen these organisations have murdered their own who have dared to try and negotiate with Isreal or the West. Osama bin Laden has CLEARLY stated that he will fight to destroy America and its allies REGARDLESS of who is in power - so for someone to say they are going to "talk" to these people makes a mockery of the whole "peace" process. Lets set the record straight here just so there is no misunderstanding.  The Illegal Settlement of "occupied" land by Israeli settlers is WRONG and the Israeli government is right in removing these people from these "outposts". All it will take is for Hamas and Hesbollah to renounce and stop their suicide bombings and attacks for the Isrealis to come to the negotiating table. Not as simple as it sounds. They tried before to talk peace but the attacks were still occuring which clearly shows that there is precious little control of the fanatics by their "political" masters and until that changes it will be extremely difficult to resolve a very ancient problem.

You cant negotiate with people that are hell bent on destroying you!  The landscape changed after 9/11 because it stopped being about securing your own back yard and became about ERADICATING the other guy. If it was just about securing a better deal for your own people then it would be a VERY different situation all together.  So you think its ok to have the Taliban run Afghanistan and spread their doctrine of religious hatred and murder throughout the Muslim world?  You find the excecution of women for expressing their independance and the mutilation of people for the crime of theft to be acceptable? You think its perfectly ok for people who live in one country to go to another, learn how to kill civilians and then return to their country of citizenship and start indiscriminantly murdering people?  You start negotiating with such people and you leave yourself wide open to attack.  They dont care if you are just "Joe Bloggs" sitting at home - you dont believe what they do and you refuse to accept it so they are going to destroy you, your family and your way of life because of that? You find that ok do you? Quite happy to have Sharia law in your country? Well there are some extremists in mine that would happily have this and then murder everyone who refused to become a follower of Islam.  If I reject the Qu'ran then my life is forfiet. That is a threat to my way of life and you are going to tell me that we can negotiate with some who fight from such an impossible position? I understand that not all Muslims feel this way. Dont misunderstand me, I am equally against any form of Christian Extremism that advocates a similar approach to "non believers".  I have worked in Kosovo and seen at first hand some of the dreadful mistrust and hatred from BOTH sides in the conflict.  Further than that I am not prepared to say publicly, but I know about this stuff. It is said that "religion has caused more wars than anything else in history".  Let me add to that as a way of clarification:  "Politics, disguised as religion, has caused more wars than anything else in history..."

Remember this from Edmund Burke: "For Evil to succeed all it requires is for good men to do nothing."

You will be telling me next that the attack on Glasgow Airport by an Al Quaida cell was an "inside" job - and if they are not a threat to my way of life - which by the way involves Law Abiding citizens of all religions and ethnic origins - then was this attack just a careless accident with a match?  You accuse me of living my life in the UK and the implication is that I am "safe" there....tell that to the victims of the 7/7 bomb attacks in London.
[/quote]

I said 9/11 was an inside job because I came to that conclusion not long after I stopped taking mainstream news media for granted. Sadly, I cannot say that we both share that thought.  You are entitled to try to draw connections between "conspiracy theories" just as Mr. Bush tried to draw lines between Iraq and Al Qaida, lines that were rebuffed and are now considered to be propaganda in its purest form. I am not talking about aliens in this topic, but rest assured that I could be persuaded to drop a couple of  lines (my personal beliefs) if an appropriate thread for this topic would be started. I'm saying personal beliefs because I would hardly be able to provide you with reliable sources for my claims. On the other hand, I am confident in the argument that 9/11 was an inside job because in this case I am able to give you sources that support this theory.

Tell me: This guy Osama bin Laden, who is he? Is he the leader of a dangerous terrorist organization or a product of the Western secret services that shares similar symbolic with the boogey man; an elusive and feared being that is supposed to live somewhere around us, but yet we never seem to be able to capture it, because as soon as we turn on the lights in our rooms he disappears?

Some regimes are inherently evil, much like the former Taliban regime in Afghanistan, but let's not forget who planted and nourished these seeds of evil. The answer is really quite that simple - at least in the Taliban example - the CIA my friend.Taliban fundamentalists were trained and armed during the Soviet invasion by no one other than the American Central Intelligence Agency. Now I know it may sound difficult to comprehend some of these ideas, but you've got to understand that all actions we make are driven by interests we see in their results, and if you're good enough in drawing lines between aliens and 9/11 I'm confident that you will be able to able to do that with the Taliban example as well.

Again, I did not say or insinuate in any way that Glasgow Airport bombings were an inside job, so I'd suggest you stop taking my words out of the context they were said in and trying to make a point with them.

Finally, you live in one of the least corrupted countries in the world according to Transparency International, a country with one of the best trained police forces, as well as one of the most developed legal systems and yet that does not make you feel safe. Strange, it sounds to me that there is a psychological component to this fear, don't you think?


vlad

P.S. Did I mention that you have the most per capita CCTV cameras installed in the World?