For 2145 Mod

[[X][Venom][HX]]

I think a player wipe would be bad. Sure it does start everyone from scratch trying to get back to the top again, but it also wastes a lot of time players have put into their characters. Setting their reputations just so, getting their ships, weapons, landing on every base they can, and completing their navmaps. I for one vote against player wipes unless it hinders progress of expanding the mod itself.

Bringing new life to the mod can be accomplished via better means truth be told, instead of everyone loosing their characters and all the time and effort put into each one of them. Things like tweaking the trade routes every few months. That keeps traders on their toes and changes the routes they must take to make real profits. Adding new ships and weapons from time to time makes everyone explore and gives people new things to strive for along with new equipment.

So rather than a player wipe, why not do smaller things to adjust the mod to keep even old things like the bar on Manhattan, new and appealing.

As for systems... Sometimes more systems are not always the key. An ever expanding mod begins to loose sight of what is already there. I have by no means explored this entire mod, but I am betting like almost every mod out there, there is room for improvement. Perhaps populating the area with training formation npcs to give systems a little life. Or new pirate bases. If you figure how vast the scope of Freelancer truly is, it should be teaming with life and in almost every mod, including this one - Some areas simply seem dead where it shouldn't be. Satellites, stations, outposts, capital ship patrols, ect.

This is just my two cents though. And I'd hate to go through a player wipe being as I've just started and I'm trying to build a clan here from scratch with no help from anyone currently.

[Rambeau]

If theres a fair way for you to look at what the long term Void players want. Look at the years of serves in the void to see whos who. You would see a vote closer to what is, in the best intest of the void. I voteb no. But if what the most long term voideman want, is whats the best for ower home server. If the vote is yes. I'm all in. I'm not one to pull agenst what will come to be. Nothing good will come of it. Ether way. Clean out the rif raf and see whos who. we have a home here. I'm all in ether way. Give me something to fall in line with. ?

[geromix]

@Kumori-Vitriol levels re-adjusted and set to a high level.

You haven't even proposed anything as a long term remedial solution in dealing with excess money.(!)

A money wipe is a short cut route to solving a problem which will never solve  the problem in first place.
It will be a superficial solution to a deep problem.
Failure to balance earnings with expenditure is the root cause of the problem.As i have said earlier and i will repeat it-
Players will regain the Lvl 90 in no time which will make a mockery of this money wipe.

As an individual you took the decision of deleting your char with stats in it.
You are not them for whom these stats matter regardless of this being a game.
And  at the same time you want to impose a money wipe on everybody.

A 100% money wipe is a very bad,shoddy,lame,superficial and lazy attempt at fixing a problem which is systematic.

-Geromix

[Koumori]

You haven't even proposed anything as a long term remedial solution in dealing with excess money.

Oh, this is all supposed to deal with a problem, is it? I was under the impression that it was just a matter of personal preference, hence as to why this is being handled with a poll of all things.
If this was supposed to have any significant benefits I'd expect the staff to discuss it amongst themselves, and maybe throw this out to the community to get other points of view.
That is not what this is for. This is just getting a simple yay or nay from the majority, so it clearly doesn't matter a pair of dingo's kidneys whether there's a wipe or not.

The majority don't want one, I didn't expect anything I said to change that, I was just making another unsuccessful attempt to put things into perspective.
Who the hell was I kidding.

[Hash]

You can add a comment if you wish or you can just cast your vote. It's up to you. I've just added comments and didn't cast my vote, btw ;P  But that's because it's conditioned.

Please Admins let us spend our money!

[geromix]

And why expect the staff to take the initiative always?

As Hash has pointed out above-your vote along with your comment would help in analyzing various aspects of this 'problem'.
This topic is therefore open for discussion.
(Read Ruggs first post and think why there are 60+ replies to this topic)

And in fact this has been discussed a number of times in many other topics,you can say this is the final discussion along with a poll.
In earlier discussions,one proposal to 'deal' with this 'problem' was put forward-a player wipe.
This post is a culmination of all those discussions ending with a poll.

Its not a matter of just giving your preference but it is also a matter of giving alternate proposals.

-Geromix

[Koumori]

your vote along with your comment would help in analyzing various aspects of this 'problem'.

That's a rather optimistic assumption.
I'm done with this farce anyway- If I'm right, anything I post here is meaningless; if I'm wrong, everything I've said can be safely disregarded.

[Hash]

C'mon Kumori, let's be optimistic and think this "discussion" is usefull. At least I hope that Admin Ruggs is reading almost 100% of this thread.  ;)
Poll ends tomorrow.  :-SS

[Outlaw]

We need to make money ALOT harder to earn.  Make trade routes longer and have to go through dangerous areas of space. Plus make items and ships more expensive.  Their need to be more of a selection of trading ships. People do'nt want to be flying the same ship (AT) as everybody else. More variety would have benefits.

Might make pirates more active thus increasing the need for escorts etc.  Traders might convoy for safety from pirates or npcs. The possiblilties are immense but the reality is people will prob get to keep their "millions" and stay and "play with each other" in sparta.

[[X][Venom][HX]]

Let me start off by saying, this is going to be long-winded. I've got some things to say and they will be said. That said, I may be new, but I am anything but stupid and I am anything but new to Freelancer.

Bottom line, if you don't like what I have to say, skip this post and save your time. If you are interested in ideas and solutions vs. speculation and bickering between posters, then read on my friend.

Another note for the post, and for all of my future posts. I don't give a flying fruit basket if anyone likes me. I'm not here to make friends or join someone's popular click. You can say what you like about me, see if I ever care about your snide remarks. (To the haters)


[hr]


First off, from what I have read there is some question as to whether the Administration cares one way or another about what it's community thinks. If you think they do not, then you are wrong. The only reason they are here and have something to do is because there is a community. Now I could ramble on more about this but I will not. Show some respect for those who work hard not just for the simple pleasure of having made something, but because they made it and it exists so you people have something to do with a piece of your free time. I don't see you burning the midnight oil to create the next system or balance out a trade route. No... You are wandering their creation having fun and then come back to the forum and make arrogant remarks about how crappy this or that is or how this is not how it is supposed to be. No one is forcing you to play, but no one asked you to be a crab. Take it with a grain of salt.

If the Admins don't care, sue me. Logically I would care about my bread and butter.


About a money wipe in general -

Sure the die hard fans and those moderately interested in the newest version of the mod will stay. But you will also loose those in their infancy of coming to know the mod and those who are simply concerned with PVP and don't want to have to explore everything again, get their equipment and stores again, and build their PVP play money again. That is a given. This is something that greatly pisses people off when they loose their stats, maps, bribes, money, ships, weapons and equipment. I'm trying to build a clan here and there may be a complete wipe here soon? In a way this is a big discouragement. There is pretty much nothing to work towards except meeting people if this is so.


Suggestions in a nutshell -

Money Farming...

Money shouldn't take forever to come by, but it shouldn't be so easy a caveman could do it. I don't want to brag but I must say for only a couple of hours of playing I've already acquired the best freighter in the mod and acquired wealth enough that if I tried, there would be no point soon. That is as plain and simple as I can put it.

I have not ventured too far into the mod, only seen a handful of systems. So if I cover anything that is already in place, cool. More power to the mod. If not, maybe I might have an idea that hasn't been thought of yet. So read on -

Capital Ships of all classes for the different Houses and Organizations. Outcasts, Xenos, Rogues, The Main Houses, ect. This would give players more options in ships and eat their money up if these ships and equipment for them are expensive.

Re-invention of the trader. The short routes should be near New York to make small change so player start ups can get decent starter ships and starter weapons to take on missions for money and build themselves. This is so people don't rely on trading when they start. If you can make more money doing missions people tend to do so. Freighters in general... Armored Transport is the largest freighter in the game? About 1k cargo hold. Let's get some capital class freighters with 3, 4, and 5k cargo holds. Make long routes from Corsair and Outcast space worth something really decent and give people the freighters that can make a run and be able to defend themselves against a fighter or two controlled by a human. I don't know much about this server but that armored transport seems like a sitting duck.

Organize people from the start -

We have flshell and flac and all those goodies right? Let's let them help us sort out this mess and put them to work for us. How could we make the server more seamless and force players by reputation into certain things and not being able to just do certain things... A starting system! Instead of starting in NY on Manhattan, let's start people off on a generic base. They undock, they are presented with billboards of instruction if they failed to read anything on the forum before coming on the server. This new character gets the idea to pick a base to land on that has his RP interest in mind. A base for police, navy, pirates, traders, rogues, freelancers, mercenaries, bounty hunters, nomads.. I could keep going.. Maybe a poll could be done about this in the future as to what is included. You could even break it down by different house police and navies, outcasts and corsairs, ect. They land on said base, when they undock their reputation is fixed in such a way that it should look for where they wanted to be in RP immediately. So starting ship, reputation, starting location, all sorted out and they find themselves not leaving the station but switching screens to the new starting location. This would redefine micromanagement of trade routes, ships, weapons, everything. I couldn't just start out neutral and get things from everywhere. Do you know how lame I feel starting from New York and working my way up to being able to go home to Malta as a Outcast?

Where players go from there is their choice. No more pirates roaming New York not getting shot by navy and police. No more police and navy running through omicron alpha not being shot up by outcasts. Anyone can neutral out their rep. And that is kinda lame. There is the hint of freedom being taken away but, if you are tagged with X, why would you go get a liberty navy bribe? Let's stick to really playing your character. If you are any good at it, NPCs shouldn't be a problem. If you can't hang in New York as a pirate, go back to the edgeworlds and leave it for the big dogs. Same with police, if you can't hang in Omicron Alpha on a full red rep, go back home.

For one this making reps harder to change helps secure the creation of house and organization specific ships and equipments staying within their house and organizations.

Two it gets someone into their character. And three it gets people work outward from a real starting point as dictated by their choice of rp. As an outcast having started in NY on numerous servers I can tell you it kinda sucks to have been there and done that before ever reaching Malta. I think the same goes for someone just wanting to be a nomad or corsair etc.

Ammo -

Make it more expensive. If someone wants to spam, let them spam rocks for pennies, not high powered stuff for pennies. Makes them better with their guns and cuts out on lag from spamming. Anyone can pwn someone with a crapload of ammo. It certainly takes no skill to point your ship at someone and fire away with tracking missiles and torps.


These are some very general suggestions. I have more and I can go into vast detail if need be. People were saying there are just ideas and no solutions, well I have solutions plenty. Anyone like them?

P.S. If no one has noticed before, traders are somewhat the measurement of a server. If there aren't any traders around, nothing goes on but mindless pvp. Keep the traders happy and everything else falls in place. Pirates have people to hunt. People get employed by traders that make cash. RP happens. Why aren't there trader specific areas and miner specific areas? Miner ships that are incredibly slow, huge and lumbering with huge cargo holds. No use making a trade run with them, just to sit around and shoot rocks and ice for loot.


Don't get me wrong, these are helpful suggestions. I appreciate everything the mod makers do here and have worked so hard to create. Really I just want to help if I can.

[Outlaw]

Hi Venom,

Most of your ideas seem fine but alot of them are very similar to Discoverys ways in doing things.  Don't get me wrong I think they have got it working perfect and have a ggod balance of traders explorers and evil and good guys and if I had my way I would like this server similar but not the same.......but I have seen this server change over the last 3 years.  When I joined their were many pirates and loads of traders/explorers and a good number of pvpers, and a handful of rogues.  Nowadays their are a handful of traders , hardly any pirates, loads of rogues and far far too many pvpers.  But the problem is that this is a pvp server, so really it is running as it should I guess.

I would rather have more of an rp side to it and I feel that this is the only chance we have to keep good numbers active in the server. I tried very hard to get rp going with some of my chars over the last year or so along with Mav, but it never really got going again.

I know this is a pvp server but too much of this and it will suffocate the life out of it.

(sorry to be so off topic, forgot what thread this was  :D )

[[X][Venom][HX]]

Well that solves a lot then doesn't it. If this is simply a PVP server then why worry about people having too much money. It's silly to have something to explore and have to work for to get the things you need in the first place. Why not cut half the systems out of it, make a trade run 500 meters in length and you get 200mil per ten minutes work. What's the point then?

Why the journey of 3d systems that seem endless in all planes of direction, why go out and explore. No point if this is just pvp really.

I had no idea this was a pvp server primarily. In a way this is sort of a let down for me. Maybe I should have done some better homework...


Yes, Disco is a good server. So is Tekagis if you want to talk about servers. I've played both and there are so many options of things to fly and buy it just blows you away. And when you look at them, you see how many people are crowding around those servers. But this isn't about other servers. This is about this one.

Anyways. I'm kinda rethinking things now. PVP clans are what drove me away from Tekagis. All the killers wanted to do is shoot anything that moved and mindlessly fight people. It got in the way of real RP trying to occur, and that is Tekagis downfall. I'm not sure what to do now.

I will say one thing though, this server is very nice. Cheers to Strail and all others who have worked hard on this mod and this community ~

[Spacemarine_E]

1. I voted no to the money wipe, make things more expensive instead.
2. If you wasn't interested in reading what Venom said, don't bother to continue reading this post.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
To Venom:

Disco is hardcore RP
Hamburg is pvp
Void is mainly pvp, but with the blend in of RP. That's what makes Void speciall in my eyes.
If you like to be a hardcore RPer then Disco might be the place, but the pvp there is in my eyes... well... Meh, boring.
If you like to just fly and kill stuff then Hamburg might be the place for you, but then again the RP would be non exsistent and everyone are just mindless robots who aim and shot.
Void on the other hand has some of both, yes you might say it's primarly a pvp server, but I sure as hell can say that there is RP here as well, RP that is blended in with the pvp. In my eyes Void is the best server when it comes to upholding the original meaning of the game: DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT! Be a trader, evil will try and kill you. Be a navy, evil is your enemy whom you will kill. Be Evil and experience how it is on the dark side of the law. DO WHAT EVER YOU WANT!

Trading
Most people tend to agree with the LONG ROUTE=HUGE Profit idea, and Short route=small profit.
Also increasing the capacity of ships is not the way to go IMHO. That would only increase the "trade for a couple of hours, money for a life time" syndrome. No, but making things even more exspensive to match the economic growth is in my eyes the way to go.

Now to your suggestions:
I think the starting idea is good IF you can choose to not begin as any faction, and that if you decide to do so you can change it (by paying a certain sum) later. Also I see a problem: Player A wants to start as an outcast while Player B wants to begin as a Liberty officer. Now for A to be able to stand on his own he will need a decent equipment to begin with, because survival in the borderworlds are much harder than thoose of the House systems. If everyone starts out with a starflier then how can A possible survive out there? but if A is helped to say a Saber with class 5 guns then he will get an unfair advantge over B, right? One solution to this mgith be start of everyone at the same lvl, say that if you choose Liberty you can start of with a modded ship and with class 5 guns similar in stats as those of the outcasts. Just a something for you to think about.

Ammo.
YES YES YES make it more expensive, why would there be a reason for trading when you reach a certain fortune you will never have to think about it again? Well let Ammo drain that fortune so that if you like using say a couple of missiles a torp a mine and a CD then you will have to pay for it.

ALSO
I think you should try this place out for a while before rethinking  ;)  
If you do that you might see that the RP that you would like to follow (pirate in this case) might help both your fun and the server. As for the Pirate TAXing deal I suggest you check out NB, there are usually traders there.

Now to bed, and to sleep!
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

[OBONE]

Oh come now Ruggs, a complete wipe would wipe me out as you know former Clansmen. As you know I have worked pretty hard since 2005 getting my Clan characters set up, my War character is Green to everyone except the HEL. You know that takes time and money. If a wipe occures again as they have before I will find myself searching through another sector of Space.

Besides, we have gone too long without a Clan docking station, this up and coming mod was to establish for us a Clan station, or will you find it empty of us old timers. So did you think of this all by yourself, or did other former Clansmen assist you.

OBONE

[Travesty]

I'd have to say a nig no.