Clan cleanup 2

[Ryus]

I did NOT say I didn't want to pay, I don't want to be FORCED to pay.  I have made at least one donation and will continue to make them when I have the money, but I want it to be because I choose to, not because I had to.

[anoyingnomad]

Blackheart, you can talk easly, you are not in a clan.... I dont think you would say this if you would be in a clan. And then, why just clans and not the Freelancer players???? Doing this will cause a serious drop of players... of atleast clans...

[Maverick]

[quote="Blackheart-X-";p="180217"]So let me get this straight.

Nobody wants to pay...[/quote]

You know that's not true m8. Look at the donations module.  :D  It's just what Ryus said: Donation by its definition are a voluntary thing. Putting any kind of pressure on it, will only work against the very idea of it. Strail will probably never demand for people to make donations in order to be in a clan or play on this server, because he probably also knows it would scare a part of the people away from here.

Donations are a voluntary thing and Strail has to rely on our generosity for financial support. But a thread like this is good to wake us up. We do play here and use the server Strail pays for, so my personal opinion is that we should put in a little donation every now and then. I admit I have never put one in as of yet, but I will as soon as possible.

[Strail]

Sorry, but whilst I do appreciate the sentiments on the money, I dont want it to be part of the clan re-organisation.

Donations/money has never been an aspect of the game I want to get into. I know in the past other servers have been paid by clans for bases/systems etc etc. However, this only brings with it problems when people have to pay money. I would prefer to keep the donations as voluntary, not mandatory.

[Babieca]

I agree in what you wrote here, Strail.

PPL and Admin agree in the anarchy and inactivity of most of the clans and forums in the server. So a "process" or some "rules" to be a clan are necessary. Your idea of 3 types of clans is interesting, but I think that MAV is right about the small differences between "Aspiring" clan and "Profesional" clan. Maybe the small difference is just necessary, because the only line between them is the time, dedication and confidence with server, so it is a very subjective question.

What you said about number of members is very true ""who have the right philosophy and ideals of the server and community regardless of their numbers"". and very necessary, because the olders clans in server , those that are representing better than anyone the "philosophy and ideals"  have a few members. I think that the time is the best judge when we talk about ideals.

The main charasteristics you expressed in this draft  about clans are subjectives, so I think that Admin team should decide about the clans and their status. Maybe if you consult to the clan leaders about the actual status of clans, and their plans for the future, Admin team could  have more tools to put each clan in their "professional", "aspiring" os "Casual" position.

So, in my opinion, lets go and good luck for all.

[RAF-Hatchet]

You're the boss Strail and sounds OK to me.
I agree with your statement clans should not run the server, no matter how big or established they are. I'm sure I speak for RAF when I say, Anything we can do to help keep the server alive and interesting. Ask us. We are here till you turn out the lights.

[[BLK_LGN][X]Zeus]

I do agree that a time constriction can separate Casual and Serious clans.

However, I don't feel that it's the same between Aspiring and Professional clans. There could be a clan that's been here a lot longer than another, and played many more hours collectively. But what if the younger clan is a much more respectable one, has "the right philosophy and ideals of the server and community regardless of their numbers". And the older clan, could be full of complete and utter a-holes, cares for nothing but being the best, but has been here for a long time.

[YMER_ODEN]

[quote="Zebulon";p="180189"]
... one of which is noteably the YMER clan - formerly established on other servers and now visiting with us.
[quote]

Not just 'visiting' Sir, we ARE settling down on Void .

[Zebulon]

@ YMER ODEN  I used the word "visiting" badly - sorry.  Staying or Residing Permanently might have been better.  

On the previous and very briefly cos it shouldnt be part of the Clan Reorg - Payment should be voluntary: Some of us can afford it WAY more than others and I dont like the idea of complusory payment.  Pay what you can when you can through the usual channels and as per Strails other thread regarding "A Moment of Your Time".   I understand the sentiment of Blackheart - it roughly translates that if you are a non clan freelancer you dont have to pay - you become a clan member you do.  I get it and understand it, but I  live by the original sentiment of "Freeplay for Freelancer" at least here on the VOID - thats why I dont play World of Warcraft....!  I dont think people would leave - you would just have very few clans,which kind of defeats the purpose in the end.

We dont want it to be impossible to have a clan - but just to have something that shows you are sincere about it and are willing to spend time working on it either as a leader or as a team member.  I like the setting down of "Ground Rules For Clans"  - it couldnt be simpler at the moment so maybe sticking with the K.I.S.S. principle you could introduce a "Ten Commandments" for establishing your very on VOID server Clan.....So far so good.

[Blackheart-X-]

Sounds fair to me.

When ever I am wrong I have always had the balls to say so, in this case it seems my views are different from the majority.  This doesnt bother me at all and I think it is good for the communtiy to discuss different ideas which may or may not work in the best interest of The Void.

Apoligies to anybody that feels I was on the verge of having a "go". (especially RAF scum  :P )

As I said before I think Stails idea is spot on, and hopefully this will reflect on clans in the future.

[Maverick]

BlackHeart don't let it get to you m8. You are a valuable addition to any discussion if you ask me. Honest and open opinions are the sort we can use most around here and anywhere for that matter. Not everyone here is capable of participating in a discussion in an adult manner.

"You can please some all the time. You can please everyone some of the time. But you can never please everyone all the time."

[RAF-Hatchet]

I never take anything personal blackheart, you had an opinion and you voiced it, thats what discussions are about.

[Neutralizer]

Well accually thats not true M8. I am making a large donation to the void. Via Strail, and thats what I consider paying to play.
It helps the admin staff with the necessary expences we voidians use. Its a reasonable and a necessary request,
as nothing in life is worth having comes without a price, and as for the Clan activity paying for being a member of a clan,
is absolutely absurd. As a Ambassador, I recuit, train and help those new clan members who are setting up.
It's not a necessity for my positon however I choose to do this, As well I donate 250 - 500 million in game, to help new players get set up. Per month.

This is what I personally do to help the void, and if you are thinking being a leader does not come WITHOUT MAJOR responcibilites, you are doing the
wrong thing M8.  As such you are responcible for upkeep on a webpage, If you choose to be a professional clan. And the never ending task of
running a clan, setting diplomacy, rules and laws.  And the training and set up of your warriers.

I dont believe paying for a clan, to be in one will ever be a good idea. But thats only my two-cents..
Ambassador Neutralizer

[Maverick]

[quote="Neutralizer";p="180311"]I recuit, train and help those new clan members who are setting up.
It's not a necessity for my positon however I choose to do this, As well I donate 250 - 500 million in game, to help new players get set up. Per month.

This is what I personally do to help the void, and if you are thinking being a leader does not come WITHOUT MAJOR responcibilites, you are doing the
wrong thing M8.  As such you are responcible for upkeep on a webpage, If you choose to be a professional clan. And the never ending task of
running a clan, setting diplomacy, rules and laws.  And the training and set up of your warriers.[/quote]
Donating that much credits to new guys you just brought into your clan is exactly what takes away from the fun of this game. You are handing it all to them on a silver platter. This makes for new unexperienced visitors to the Void being lured in by your nice promises and the prospect of lots of money. But you are also preventing them to do some exploring for them selfs, and earn some honest credits to buy a good ship and equipment them selfs, before they have the time to have a good look around. In my opinion you are not 'helping the Void', like you state. You are just taking away from the opportunity for new players to make up their own minds and sort their own stuff.
Nothing wrong with recruiting, training and helping new clan members. But the way you go about it goes against the fun this game and this mod provides to new players, which is - as stated - to do some exploring for them selfs first, get to know the mod and the places to go. They should have the chance to do these things, and also the opportunity to get to know the different clans here on Void, before they are recruited are apply for a position in one of them.

And nobody said being a clan leader /ambassador doesn't come with responsibilities. This is a generally know fact and speaks for it self.

The [FAQ] Team will discourage at all times to accept an invitation to join a clan too soon. And will advice to take the time and opportunity to get acquainted with the mod and its clans first. The name of the game - Freelancer - indicates a free will to do whatever one wants to do. And make up their own minds. They should therefore also be provided with the opportunity to do so.

Frankly I think you post is besides the topic. And therefore so is my reply, for which my apologies. You brought it up - you got a reply.
The way you treat newly recruited clan members can be discussed elsewhere. In a recruitment advertisement for example.

*EDIT*:
To relate your post to the topic of this thread:
The quality of a clan is not reflected by the numbers of the members, nor is it by the amount of money they receive from their leader or ambassador. It is reflected by the professional and respectable attitude of the members towards eachother and - more importantly - other players on the server, their ability to stick to their RP,  ;) and the ability to operate without the guidance of their leaders in a way that is respectable towards the server rules, representing the clan diplomacies and the spirit of the game. (among other things ofcourse)

'Just my 2 cents...'  ;)

Now let's get back on topic.

[Neutralizer]

No not that much Maverick, on an average I would say I give new players 25 million.
That allows for a fighter, a trader, and the rest is up to them.
As for members of a clan, it is not fun to have to re-due all your ships again
so help with an escort, weapons and reps, is something I do.

I get asked for help daily, The admin staff know I do this, and they don't have issues with it, and I certainly
don't hand the void to them on a silver platter. I give them a fighting change to do whatever they choose.
We all know the game's enjoyment is seriously enhanced when you have a trader and a fighter.

And I have had many offer to pay me back. It is a gift. And repayment should never be a
requirement of something that is gifted, or given away..

You can choose whatever way to play that suits your desire, and that's human nature, however
I choose to help, because it makes me feel good. I have had members post appreciation messages on the
void forum. That's something m8. You just can't buy...And had people tell me, I am the only reason
they stayed on the void.

Rather than cause disappointment, and discourage new players..I help them, so they may fight and challenge the other players
thus helping the greater good of the void.

Respectfully
Ambassador Neutralizer

P.S For the record this is in reply to this post. And doing my part for the void. I neither try or allow new players to join.
That would be crazy.  Players who join a clan should have several years experience in Freelancer.
Being that I have been in three, am respected for my attempts at Diplomacy and as well my helping of new players.
I don't believe this is frowned upon, nor do I make it easy. I am a adult, and what I choose is my opinion.
That's all. Also I was helped twice when I came to the void, and I was very pleased not to continously die in my starflier.
No offence meant M8. It's a GAME.