Nomad Lasers, Balanced or not?

[DarkPand0r]

[quote="shonensan";p="203402"]I agree with becker.

What are you trying to do for me pants is to bring every player to where you are sure you can own them...its like i come in forums and say to remove all brawling guns, cds, missiles and only use lasers so i can kill anyone because lasers are the weapons i use better and without cd that stop my EK, missiles that hit me from everywhere i can kill anyone.

This is the void, players can use a good amount of different equip, ships and fighting styles and you have to find the better way to counteract them all, not trying to nerf them because you have difficulties fighting them.

I tried to nerf missiles but i faild

Btw the word nerf exist?

Pimms[/quote]

Ya, i tried to nerf my mum but she still talks out of turn...

[Symbol]

Ugh no... silly people are silly.

The whole thing did shift to my performance but forget that, yes it's part of the game. The argument here isn't whether or not it's a bug in the game which is not what im arguing but it's what you all seem to think I'm arguing but whether or not they are a balanced part of the game. Stop countering me with "It's in here so it's fair" and "If you use it too it's fair" because those are not only invalid but completely ignores every point i made in my argument. I'll give again a perfect example of the imbalance here, a decent drift requires timing, placment, and at least two buttons pressed. Firing a CD to stop a drift requires one button to pressed. This is not balanced, can someone please give a legitimate response to the above statement that will convince me that it's fair. I actually do have an open mind; in fact open mindedness is what lead me to these fairly unaccepted viewpoints. Back in the day i was a pretty spammy fellow too.

They're part of the game. True.
They're a balanced element of the game. Incorrect. See above.
It's just how the game is and can't be changed. False, it's a simple ini modification.
If everyone uses them are they fair? No, it's like two students with half the answers to their math test. Although they're on a level field just because one student does well on the second half of the answers and outscores the other on the test he may have been weaker on the first half of the test while the other stronger. Why bother adding handicaps?

(Note that all of the above was about CD's)

Now on to lasers:

"
In short; No, they aren't.

Sniping is hard to learn but easy to master, it seems hard at first but once you get the hang of picking your shots you'll find you do much better with 1.00 than anything higher. Brawling is easy to learn, but very hard to master. With 1.00 refire you can devote 90% of your efforts into dodging and turning, taking only breif moments to pick a shot and fire; with 2.00+ refire you have to be aiming and firing the entire time you're dodging and turning, which makes it alot harder to successfully brawl than it is to snipe. Not to mention the fact that Nomad Lasers travel 1200 m/s which does nothing but improve your odds to hit. It's also extremely difficult to track Sniper weapons, when a good brawler shoots at you its alot easier to dodge simply because you can see the stream of shots flying towards you and you can compensate with a change in direction; with sniper weapons you dont have that luxury and if the enemy can make one single good shot you will be down half your hull. Now on the technical side of the weapons. The primary argument for them being fair is that they do less DPS (Damage Per Second) than brawlers, this is true however it's an incomplete concept. In order for someone to do 2500 damage in one second with Anni's you have to hit your enemy 6 times in a row. When's the last time you hit a decent pilot six shots in a row? Probably never happened. This makes it VERY hard to drop shields since in-between hits the shield regenerates a little, so in a real fight it will take a 6 nomad setup one single hit to drop a WA1's shield while it could realistically take 10-15 shots from a 6 anni setup to drop the same shield. So no, they aren't balanced. They were a bad idea that people have taken too far."

Can someone please create a valid counter argument that again does not involve "It's just part of the game" and "Everyone does it so it's fair.". Because it appears that unlike everyone else i'm putting solid logic behind my ideas here and everyone else seems to be speaking with pure intuition. The only "smart" argument i've read in the past six pages for the balance of lasers was that in terms of damage per second they suck compared to brawlers. Now observe how i took that argument and countered it =D it wasn't even that hard! You try!

[Al-Mualim]

I've never had a problem with someone blocking my slide.....

Just a thought.

[Koumori]

a decent drift requires timing, placment, and at least two buttons pressed. Firing a CD to stop a drift requires one button to pressed.

If it can be countered that easily, maybe that just makes it a bad tactic. I mean good grief, if the modders had to change things around every time anyone came up with a new technique just so that it'd be as good as every other way of fighting they'd be at it all day.

The players should adapt the the game, not the other way around.

I'll admit, that's a slippery slope towards everybody doing the same bloody thing in battle, but that's an extreme scenario and I don't think we're in too much danger of going there yet. All you really need is a handful of (somewhat) equally balanced methods of fighting to add to the variety. Every single thing you might do doesn't have to be equally easy to execute as every possible countermeasure against it- nothing's that perfect.
I can only speak out of experience, but someone spamming CDs at me has never severely hindered me in battle.
Fighting a sniper, however, is just rarely ever fun for me. That's really all I can say about it.

[Maverick]

Exactly my thoughts.

[TheLaughingMan]

If you have skill or luck to use it
We need that almost invisible projectiles around us XD

[SeLzAm]

i always hated it to fight snipers. last time i left the server, it was bcuz there where too many snipers around...and to be honest, not bcuz i was like "theyr guns are unfair", no, just bcuz i didnt found any way to kill them. sorta frustrating.

Now these days, its completely different. i have found my perfect brawling setup to kill snipers.  but if theres a really good sniper at me, i still get killed...fast little buggers ) j/k

i mean, a wa1 with 6x nirvanas, 2x debilitators, a hornet and a torp is lethal for just every1...these guns match perfectly to each other. same refire,nearly same speed and same distance. that setup is perfectly tracking. it gives me the chance to fight those snipers on a equal base. this looks to me like a kind of "Balance". u have to wait very long, till u fire, bcuz this ship has less firepower. so basically u do a sniper-like-play with a brawler setup.

its all about tracking! tracking, tracking, tracking

u know, i used to use an  anoobis with anihis and screamers, but they dont really match together and so u have a bad tracking. only the screamers hit on first and third shot. that means, always when the screamer fires, u lose the tracking on the anihis and they dont do any damage! u need to have guns with likely statistics, or u will fail at snipers. the time on one turn, in wich u can hit a sniper is too short, that u can win with a setup that only hit 3 of 5 times. with nirvanas and debis u hit atleast 2 to 3 times on a turn, instead of - err - i guess just 1 hit with the anihis bcuz of the screamers.

sadly, there are no brawler-guns that really match to screamers ( or i dont know em). Snipers are only overpowered bcuz they have a setup with perfectly matching guns...if you, as a brawler, use a matching setup too, there is nothing "overpowered" at all. u get an equal chance. if your good enough

i met a guy last week, that got mad bcuz he got killed very fast and didnt did any damage to me. now, he used following setup:

anubis mk2 with
2 Fears
2 Nomad Energy cannons
2 screamers
1 diamondback
1 nomad turret
2 torps

sorry, there is no chance AT ALL to ever win any PVP with such a setup. only 1 or 2 guns here really track me. me on the other hand hit him with all my 8 guns at the same time. i do atleast 5times more damage.

yesterdays i got killed by a sniper with a crow...i didnt even scratch him, bcuz i just dont ever saw him straight it has only 4 gunslots, but still...do u gonna go say now, this is unbalanced too? not at all, bcuz this was a very good pilot...and nothing else. if he just where flown straight at me just one single time, he would be dead. but he knows how to fly the crow.

there is no really overpowered stuff here anymore. just use equal guns that match and your fine. no gun setup can replace skill

IF u really wanna change something, readjust the speeds and distance to a more balanced level. with this, there would be more useful setups available.

[die_volker]

@ TOPIC TITLE

NO

[darthnova]

In some ways no and some ways yes. If you can learn how to dodge lasers and predict thier next shot then you will discover you can defeat that person within a few seconds because you can get on target with them better. I think that the voidian pvp style has revolved around nomy lasers and if they were taken away who knows what would happen? Now as a sniper myself I discover that when fighting vs brawlers I have to dodge a whole lot more due to the high refire, and I often find it harder to go vs someone with nomad nirvanas or annis than someone with lasers. So I think that they are sort of balanced.

[TheLaughingMan]

1 more thing
Nomad lasers reminds us to keep avoiding and not just go ahead and shoot
we all can be killed within 2 seconds

[McViper]

I don't think they are, coz shooting with lasers make u more beeing in a nice place to get shot, only skilled guys can avoid this case.
With nirvanas and a good aimer, the snipers goes down easily.

Regards
McViper

[thebest]

the player makes the difference not the weapons...if you die against a sniper it means he is better than you. Point. If you die against a brawler it means he is better than you. Point. Only if you die against a spammer it doesn't mean that he is better than you. Point.

[Burn]

[quote="thebest";p="210403"]the player makes the difference not the weapons...if you die against a sniper it means he is better than you. Point. If you die against a brawler it means he is better than you. Point. Only if you die against a spammer it doesn't mean that he is better than you. Point.[/quote]

For once i agree with you shonensan.

[SeLzAm]

hmm, some ppl really die hard...

look, when u break through the Cellwall with your head, you just have to ask yourself: what do i want to do in the neighbours Cell? do u think it leads to anything?

only [edited] claim to be the best