Missiles - An Idea

[[BLK_LGN][X]Zeus]

First off, hear me out, don't just go off on one because the topic is about missiles. It ain't here to whinge, it's here to present a possible solution.

Alright, a lot of players get frustrated with missiles, we all know this. I'd like to suggest something to make them more...missile like. Hear me out. It's a very simple fix composed of two edits of their munitions. Let's be honest, the way missiles can track, it's just excessive, and not very suiting of what they should be like.

1) Decrease the max_angular_velocity. For the 'dumb' missiles it's 2.9 and for the tracking missiles, it's 4.4. I'd suggest something along the lines of 1.4 and 2.2 respectively. For those who don't know what this means is this will decrease the rate at which missiles can turn and change direction.

2) Decrease the seeker_fov_deg. It's 35 for all missiles. My suggestion is something closer to 20. For those who don't know what this means is this will decrease the angle at which missiles will begin to track, which means they actually will have blind spots which they near enough don't as it is now.

The thing with missiles is that they track way too well, they're near impossible to avoid. They will lock and track when doing a full slide across the side of the opponent, even if you're at their side they can still turn and hit. These changes would mean that you will actually have to be closer to facing your opponent, and that far slides or strafing will actually make it possible to avoid them. Also, it brings the tracking missiles into play a bit more as to be able to make your missiles chase your target as well, their better abilities will be needed in sacrifice for brute force.

The lasers got nerfed to make it easier to defend yourself against them. It's only fair that missiles get the same treatment. I see this idea as a fair one that doesn't hurt missiles too much, but it means you actually have to be able to keep up with your opponent to be able to hit them, no more flying in circles and blowing them up when you can't even see them.

Upping CM and CD HP isn't a bad idea either.

What do people think?

[Zsoca]

Interesting idea. Also what about to decrease the number of missiles that you can carry to max 50? I hate missile spam..its flustrating and ugly. I use missiles very rarely couse firing tons of missiles are - ok its a brutal force - but an ugly way to pvp...what I mean ugly...When I watch some airborne fight between moder day fighters it looks cool when a plane release some of their missiles, 2 or 3 its cool...also in sci-fi shows. You know the missile leaves the ship and fly toward the enemy, you can see the impact etc...but 10-20 missiles? Its strange. That looks cool only in anime and its called Itano Circus...

[cmdrsaman]

[quote="[BLK_LGN][X]Zeus";p="220295"]1) Decrease the max_angular_velocity. For the 'dumb' missiles it's 2.9 and for the tracking missiles, it's 4.4. I'd suggest something along the lines of 1.4 and 2.2 respectively. For those who don't know what this means is this will decrease the rate at which missiles can turn and change direction.[/quote]
This isn't a bad idea, but in my opinion, 1.4 and 2.2 are too low. This would make firestalkers even more useless than they are now :P I'd say 2.4 and 3.9 should work better, but [Motor]accel should be down from 22.04 and 26.67 to, say, 16.50 and 21. That way, it'll take the missiles longer to reach their max velocity, which would mean they'd be considerably worse when fired close, and somewhat worse when fired from a distance. (And it's not like avoiding them from a distance is hard, is it? :P)


[quote="[BLK_LGN][X]Zeus";p="220295"]2) Decrease the seeker_fov_deg. It's 35 for all missiles. My suggestion is something closer to 20. For those who don't know what this means is this will decrease the angle at which missiles will begin to track, which means they actually will have blind spots which they near enough don't as it is now.[/quote]
Actually, it's 35 for torpedoes as well. As far as I know, it means that the missile (/ torpedo) will only seek its target if it's within 35 degrees of its front view. (For example, if it were 180, then it could track it even if it were completely to the left or right side.) I don't think that's all that large, and nobody's complaining in this regard about torpedoes either, so in my opinion, there's no need to change this.


[quote="[BLK_LGN][X]Zeus";p="220295"]I see this idea as a fair one that doesn't hurt missiles too much, but it means you actually have to be able to keep up with your opponent to be able to hit them, no more flying in circles and blowing them up when you can't even see them.[/quote]
Um, when you can't even see them? I must really suck with missiles then, since I could never kill someone with a missile when I couldn't even see them :D Besides, with the seeker degree being 35, how would it track an opponent that you couldn't see?


[quote="[BLK_LGN][X]Zeus";p="220295"]The lasers got nerfed to make it easier to defend yourself against them.[/quote]
As far as I know, the lasers got nerfed because their speed was too huge: no other (fighter) weapons had 1200 m/s. Also, as far as hull damage goes, the CB has pretty much the same damage output as other guns do - the only advantage they have is the explosion damage, and that counts only against ships with subparts. Maybe if its hull damage was lowered to 3800-4000, it'd help offset its advantage (of being a tracking weapon). Of course, there's also that that CMs disrupt missiles, while they don't disrupt guns :D


[quote="[BLK_LGN][X]Zeus";p="220295"]Upping CM and CM HP isn't a bad idea either.[/quote]
I agree with the CM (and CD) HP, it's way too low compared to guns. (1000 vs 6752, if I recall correctly.) But upping its effectiveness? In my opinion, it's a bit too high already. (Try disrupting a fleeing ship which has its launcher set to auto.)

[McViper]

Interesting

I dunno about the numbers so i can't suggest something, otherwise, the idea looks cool and fair.

Regards
Viper

[Hash]

Agree. I like the idea too. Because I've hit and I've been hit by a missile when the other ship was at my side or even passed me (surely due to a bit of lag too). And I think that that can't be possible.

Also if they could fly a longer distance would be more realistic. Nowadays you can fire a rocket just with your enemy on the radar, you don't need to see him, so imagine in year 2115.
In this case, the refire rate should be decreased or we'll have a lot of missiles flying here and there.

Well thought Zeus.

Forgot to say:
Idk if this would be hard to do or even if it's possible, but, max. number of missiles and torpedos should vary depending on ship. A light fighter carrying 120 missiles and 120 torps is truely too much. Don't you think?

[edam]

[quote="Zsoca";p="220296"] That looks cool only in anime and its called Itano Circus...[/quote]

love it



Z if ya cant beat em mate get in a drake and educate them then.

but i do agree with the lowering of the tracking or the uping of the cd cm.

but i also agree with the 50 max in hold thing too or make them a dam sight more expensive to buy then were laughing.

[DarkPand0r]

I think the best thing to do isn't reducing tracking and such as that takes away from the experience of missiles.

The problems I see with missiles are:
1. Multiplied damage for ship/weapon parts
2. Knocks off CM's easily
3. SPAM

In my opinion good fixes for all of these are available:
1. Increase weapon part health and make all ships 1 part instead of 3-4
2. Same as #1
3. Increase the refire on missiles dramatically making it only possible to fire 1 missile per pass
4. Limit ships to 1/2 missile slots

I think reducing the tracking and abilities of missiles is the wrong way to go, essentially your just nerfing missiles and making them pointless to use. The problems I see mainly with missiles is the Spam issue, I won't point at certain groups because its not fair but we all know there is Spam in the game.
Other mods have made all ships have 1 part eradicating the issue of multiplied missile damage and increasing the refire rate of missiles should stop people firing constant waves of missiles at people.

Missile users are described as spammers because they fire 3-4 cannonballs per pass which is ridiculous. I've always followed a rule of 1 missile per pass maximum, anything more than that is ridiculous. I also believe that anything more than 1 missile is insane, although I did use 2 on Void because missile damage isn't as much as it is on Vanilla where a Cannonball is enough to kill someone.

[Stoertebecker]

Some good thoughts here. A minor side note: missile spam is - among others- an indicator that money comes too easy. It's annoying to fight someone with 3 Cannonballs- but think about how much *each salvo* costs. And most of the time, they still miss.
When money is not that plentyfull, a "spam clan" would need a dedicated network of traders/mission makers to keep up a decent war- which, in turn, makes them vunerable. Attack their money makers, and they may not have enough cash to keep up a spam war. Which would really add a strategical dimension to wars.

Cheers

Becker

edit: sliding is not that effective against missiles. Because when sliding you are basically moving in a straight line. Straight lines are open invitations to homing projectiles.

edit2: I really like the idea of lighter fighters carrying less missiles. They are smaller in size etc. So why should they become the supreme bombers?

[DarkPand0r]

It would be nice to see less money in the game or much more expensive gear, would make being a trader actually mean something....

[[BLK_LGN][X]Zeus]

Here is a crude diagram - yes, made in paint - to demonstrate how missiles work at the moment. This is what I mean when they're hitting while doing a slide across the side of the opponent, and how they can hit when they can't even see you. This is for a cannonball, by the way.



What I'm suggesting would decrease the angle of the blue line, meaning you'd have to see the enemy and have a proper path calculated before you can hit.

The money doesn't matter for some due to their unscrupulous methods of hoarding money.  >:P

[DarkPand0r]

That flight path is incorrect entirely........Missiles don't track like that In the slightest.

[cmdrsaman]

Hoo boy. When you said that was a crude diagram, you weren't kidding :D

I assume that red is firing a missile at green, as indicated by the CMs. Now, the moment red fires the missile, green is well outside the missile's tracking FOV, which is 35 degrees. For it to begin tracking at the moment you drew, that would have to be 180 degrees. If this situation you drew were to be played out in FL, the missile would fly off straight in one direction, and not take a turn so sharp that even CDs would have a hard time with. Never mind that with a 90% chance, the CMs would kick in and the missile would start tracking them instead of the green ship. (If it even saw them, that is.)

Keep in mind that the missile launchers can only turn some degrees within your ship's FOV, and the missile itself will only begin tracking if the enemy ship is within 35 degrees of the missile's front when it's launched. Also, not even firestalkers can turn as quickly as you drew, never mind cannonballs.

[[BLK_LGN][X]Zeus]

I bet you all my chars that if I could record some brawls, you'd see that a lot of missiles do in fact track like that. And hit. Sorry if it was unclear, but the FOV's are for the players, not the missiles.  :-SS

[HellKrusher]

Z is right and the diagram is OK nothing wrong there try it urself in game

[QUASAR]

[quote="HellKrusher";p="220378"]Z is right and the diagram is OK nothing wrong there try it urself in game [/quote]
Agree

=D> for image lol